Moho 14 - Issue with complicated masking on canvas. GPU disabling missing in this version?

[kenchtahm]

I'm having a display issue in the new version of Moho: when making complex masking nests (masked group that is, itself, being masked), the canvas view doesn't correctly mask the group, but the render looks fine:

Canvas view:


Render:



I was able to solve this in 13.5 by turning off GPU acceleration, which doesn't seem to be an option anymore. I saw there are a few others in here that are having similar issues. Has anyone found a workaround?

(Not sure if this is the right forum for this, sorry if not!)

[synthsin75]

Dropbox preview images don't show.

[kenchtahm]

Ah crud, thanks! Fixed the original post!

[synthsin75]

Since the display of masking was updated/improved, you may need to use some liquid shapes and/or references to get the render-accurate mask in the workspace.

[Daxel]

I'm not sure how you did it, but I just tested it and I was able to achieve something similar with nested masking and it looks correctly in the workspace with GPU cache on and off.

Maybe you have more things going on and the problem is not so simple. I did this:

HEAD group (mask: inside bottom layer)
>>>>MOUTH group (mask: inside bottom layer)
>>>>>>>>teeth
>>>>>>>>tongue
>>>>>>>>lips +
>>>>face +

[kenchtahm]

My setup is one layer more complicated -- I'm doing a switch set for the mouths (so I can interpolate the sub layers), and each of the sub layers is a group (probably doesn't have to be -- I'm coming from After Effects so there's some logic to the program that I keep getting tripped up on) so the setup is:

Mouth Group (Mask inside bottom layer)
>>>>Mouth Switch
>>>>>>Mouth Shape Group (mask inside bottom layer)
>>>>>>>>>>Lips (stroke, no fill) (don't mask this layer)
>>>>>>>>>>Teeth and Tongue
>>>>>>>>>>Mouth Fill
>>>>>>>>>>Mask for inside of mouth (reference of Lips layer, fill and no stroke) (add to mask but keep invisible)
>>>>Head Shape Mask (add to mask but keep invisible)

So the Head Shape Mask is masking the mouth switch group, which has masked groups inside of it. Now that I'm looking at it, I think it's because the lips are set to "don't mask this layer" -- that affects the mask of the group it's in like it's supposed to, but the canvas view is carrying that setting through to the outer group masking, where the render is masking correctly (or, at least, as I'm intending).

I think there's a problem with the logic that I'm using to set this whole mouth up, it's a mess -- but that's a whole separate issue

[Daxel]

I would try different masking solutions to see if you can make it render correctly in the workspace, or use liquid shapes to reduce complexity as Wes sugested. You can also ignore it because it renders correctly outside of the workspace, but if the rig is going to be used a lot it's cool to have it looking well in the workspace, specially now that everything looks so well.

If you can isolate what makes the workspace render incorrectly, it would help if you can make a report so they know about that problematic corner case. Maybe it's a limitation but it could be a bug so the more we report the better.

[kenchtahm]

Thanks! I've begun looking into liquid shapes, I hadn't heard of them before. I also have been looking into masks, and am realizing there are a few things I misunderstood about how they work.

I appreciate your help!

[Daxel]

You're welcome!
If you are going to dive into liquid shapes, I totally recomend you to use the Shapes window script, by Rai López: viewtopic.php?t=36508.
It makes so much easier to understand and use liquid shapes. I was having a hard time understanding them without it.

[Greenlaw]

Hi Matt,

The way I dealt with this in Boss Baby was to carve out a hole in the profile so I could insert any shape I wanted using a Switch layer. Like so...



This method was preferable because it didn't require complex masking techniques. Simply and literally, this is "what you see is what you get."

So, would I use Liquid Shapes for this situation in 2023? Probably not. Liquid Shapes is a fantastic new feature, and I've started using it in the shows I work on, but a limitation with Liquid Shapes is that all the shapes need to exist in a single layer for them to work. For me, the 'cutout' method described above offers more flexibility and control in this situation than I would have with Liquid Shapes.

Now, I did use Liquid Shapes in the above example for the eye. This was a suitable choice because, once again, I didn't need to use a complex masking technique, I just enabled Liquid Shapes for the pupil to let the eye shape mask it out. Easy peasy.



As with many things Moho, there are a dozen ways to accomplish something, and some are better suited than others in specific situations. Just give these a try and see if they work for you. If they don't, you have ten more ways to try.

Hope this helps.

(Note: the above examples are taken not from Boss Baby: Back In Business. They were created specifically for this forum post. Just wanted to make that clear.)

[Hoptoad]

Mouth Group (Mask inside bottom layer)
>>>>Mouth Switch
>>>>>>Mouth Shape Group (mask inside bottom layer)
>>>>>>>>>>Lips (stroke, no fill) (don't mask this layer)
>>>>>>>>>>Teeth and Tongue
>>>>>>>>>>Mouth Fill
>>>>>>>>>>Mask for inside of mouth (reference of Lips layer, fill and no stroke) (add to mask but keep invisible)
>>>>Head Shape Mask (add to mask but keep invisible)

The way you built that masking layer seems problematic, to me. Why include the lips, for example, since they are excluded from the mask?

Perhaps try this: delete "Mask for inside of mouth" and use the layer "Mouth Fill" as the mask (which is, I presume, the dark space inside of the mouth). It's simpler, imo.

[Greenlaw]

I have to confess, I haven't used Liquid Shapes a lot yet. In fact, it's only recently that I used it to create some effects for one of our shows. So, I continued this demo to see how much I could use Liquid Shapes in a face setup.

In the first test, I used Liquid Shapes to mask the irises and mouthparts. All of these shapes, including the head, exist in one layer. The result is good until I move the face to the edge of the head...



These are some of the limitations of Liquid Shapes I hinted at earlier. If I'm careful about the stacking order, I can use Liquid Shapes to set certain shapes to be masked by certain other shapes, like the left and right irises masked by the eye shapes and the mouth parts (tongue and teeth) masked by the mouth shape, but I think it's too much to ask Liquid Shapes to also mask all of these parts by the head region (remember, this is all occurring inside a single layer.)

So I took a hybrid approach by breaking out the face parts using Liquid Shapes into one layer and the head drawing into another, and using regular masking to mask the face with the head. The result looked like this...



If this were an actual production piece, I would rig and animate the face and head differently, but it's a decent demonstration for the possibilities of combining Moho techniques.

I hope this gives you some fresh ideas for how to approach your project.

[Hoptoad]

So I took a hybrid approach by breaking out the face parts using Liquid Shapes into one layer and the head drawing into another, and using regular masking to mask the face with the head. The result looked like this...

I was wondering if that type of set-up would work. Thanks for making the video, showing it would work.

Liquid Shapes are more useful than I originally thought they'd be. I recently had a problem making a Patch layer work correctly in a complex leg rig. Frustrated with the results, I thought, "Maybe if I used Liquid Shapes, I can solve this problem." And, like I suspected, Liquid Shapes solved the problem.

[Greenlaw]

I recently had a problem making a Patch layer work correctly in a complex leg rig.

I have a trick for creating the patch layer effect without using a patch layer. It's very handy because the technique works with groups, unlike regular patch layers. I'll throw together an example and post it this afternoon or evening.

[Hoptoad]

I have a trick for creating the patch layer effect without using a patch layer. It's very handy because the technique works with groups, unlike regular patch layers. I'll throw together an example and post it this afternoon or evening.

Cool, a patching trick. Looking forward to it.